Ep 122 Transcript


Episode 122: Love Storm

 

Fiery passion not only infects the young but the old as well, including one heir’s mother caught up in another scandalous affair.

 

#JohnJacobAstorVI, #MadeleineAstor, #EnzoFiermonte, #Titanic, #Titanicwidow, #boxer, #Bermuda, #loversspat, #doginheritance

 

September 1933, recently divorced Madeleine Talmage Force Astor Dick waits for her much younger lover Italian boxer Enzo Fiermonte to be divorced as well.  They rush to get married only to have more complications in Bermuda, where more than a heart gets broken. 

 

Other people and subjects include: John Jacob Astor VI aka “Jakey,” John Jacob Astor IV aka “Jack,” Vincent Astor, William Dick, William Force Dick, John Henry Dick, Signora Tosca Manetti Fiermonte, Gianni Fiermonte, mother and two brothers Fiermonte, Ralph Carr, Janet Snowden Caravita, Prince Caravita, Phil Plant, Claire Windsor, Alfred Read, Marian Read, brother of University of California football player, Dr. Moulowd, Dr. King, fictional book “The Last Slaver,” Dr. Preston, Dr. Weeks, Dr. Watson, personal doctor, secretary, tutor, Madison Square Garden prizefighter winner, boxer, male bathing suit competition, divorce, scandal, press, Italian press, rumors, alienation of affection, payoff, fickled lovers, newlyweds, detectives, gold diggers, social climbers, stepmother, lovers spat, telegram, X-rays, airplane, ocean liner Vulcania, Pan America, Queen of Bermuda, Reno, Lake Tahoe, Manhattan, Hotel Pierre, Bermuda, Bellevue estate, King Edward Hospital, 1932 Olympics Los Angeles, Santa Monica, Rome, Paris, Venice, Lido, Lake Como, Palm Beach, Newport, Church of England, Roman Catholic Church, forbidden remarriage, living spouses, King Henry VIII of England, Catherine of Aragorn, Anne Boleyn, Prince Charles – King Charles III, Camilla Parker Bowles, Diana, Princess of Wales, Andrew Parker Bowles, W.F. Kimball, J.T. Kimball, police dog Tuffy, dog inheritance, Karl Martin Hartung, Kaiser Wilhem II, Princess Hermine of Prussia, Princess Augusta of Prussia, blackmail, romance scams, sweetheart scams, swindler, natural son – illegitimate son, Paulinenhof Internment Camp, Nazis, Soviet Red Army, royal burial, female doctors, medical research study, Dr. Josephine Neal, Dr. Margaret Smith, encephalitis study, St. Louis epidemic, trouble with dating, starting over, failed romances, wealthy wives, green card process, ICE interaction with ex-husband, home visit, divorce troubles,…

 

Archival Music provided by Past Perfect Vintage Music, www.pastperfect.com.

 

Extra Notes / Call to Action:

The Second Mrs. Astor by Shana Abe

 

Ti’s Hot Mess History

Ti’s Hot Mess History, YouTube Channel

https://www.youtube.com/@TisHotMessHistory

 

Riches to Ruin – Titanic Widow of John Jacob Astor & Her Troubled 3rd Marriage by Ti’s Hot Mess History July 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODY-qiEn3ak

 

The Scandalous True Story of Titanic’s Wealthiest Passenger – JJ Astor & His Teen Wife by Ti’s Hot Mess History May 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF89xKNWbow&t=25s

 

The Rich Boy Nobody Wanted: Titanic Baby John Jacob Astor VI by Ti’s Hot Mess History December 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rlV8oT6lxsAnna Bey Official YouTube Channel

 

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Publish Date: December 20, 2024

Length: 24:51

Opening Music: My Heart Belongs to Daddy by Billy Cotton, Album The Great British Dance Bands

Section 1 Music: Red Sails In The Sunset by Casani Club Orchestra, Album The Great Dance Bands Play Hits of the 30s

Section 2 Music: Stars Fell On Alabama by Lew Stone, Album The Great British Dance Bands

Section 3 Music: You Turned Your Head by Jack Jackson, Albums The Great British Dance Bands & Tea Dance 2

End Music: My Heart Belongs to Daddy by Billy Cotton, Album The Great British Dance Bands

AS THE MONEY BURNS

Podcast by Nicki Woodard

 

Episode 122 – Love Storm

 

Outline

Affair

Reconcile

 

 

Series Tag

 

00:00

[Music – My Heart Belongs to Daddy by Billy Cotton, Album The Great British Dance Bands]

 

AS THE MONEY BURNS is an original podcast by Nicki Woodard.  Based on historical research, this is a deep exploration into what happened to a set of actual heirs and heiresses to some of America’s most famous fortunes when the Great Depression hits.

 

Each episode has three primary sections.  Section 1 is a narrative story.  Section 2 goes deeper into the historical facts.  Section 3 focuses on contemporary, emotional, and personal connections.   

 

00;29

Story Recap

 

While Doris Duke avoids kidnappers, Jakey Astor finally gains his inheritance and his freedom.

 

Now back to AS THE MONEY BURNS

 

Title

 

00:43

Love Storm

 

[Music Fade Out]

 

 

Episode Tag

 

Fiery passion not only infects the young but the old as well, including one heir’s mother caught up in another scandalous affair.

 

 

01:02

[Music – Red Sails In The Sunset by Casani Club Orchestra, Album The Great Dance Bands Play Hits of the 30s]

 

Section 1 – Story

 

[Music Fade Out]

 

01:21

One thing is for certain…  Gossip will always exist, and nothing fuels gossip better than a romantic scandal.

 

Little Miss Kissless teenage heiress Janet Snowden’s brief weekend with Italian Prince Caravita fills the news columns far longer than their marriage.  On their fifth day of marriage, Janet stepped out into the rain to shop for a trousseau only to phone Prince Caravita later saying she would be shopping for a divorce.  Weeks later, he hopes while she shops for a divorce, she will instead return to him with a trousseau.  Impetuous young Janet is unlikely to understand that she actually married a Prince who believes in “I do” for life and will unlikely remarry if they do not reunite.

 

His only worry is the stress and trouble this fiasco has caused his mother back in Naples.

 

02:10

Janet might be new to scandal, but another Society matron should know far better.

 

The somewhat still young at heart 40 year old Madeleine Talmage Force Astor Dick recently went to Reno to procure a divorce from her childhood sweetheart and 2nd husband William Dick.  Madeleine was first embroiled in scandal with her first marriage to twice older John Jacob Astor IV, aka Jack, from whom she was widowed upon returning from their honeymoon aboard the Titanic.  Four months later, she gave birth to their son proud scion John Jacob Astor VI, aka “Jakey.”  Madeleine would forgo her wealthy widow’s trust to marry William Dick, but after lasting nearly 16 years that marriage fails under the strain.

 

02:54

Madeleine appears in Reno with her two younger teenage sons William Force Dick (16) and John Henry Dick (14).  Also heavily hanging onto her neck is her younger lover almost half her age – the fiery 25 year old Italian prizefighter Enzo Fiermonte.  Enzo is both a shot of youthful vigor and a bright spot in her otherwise gloomy and nerve wrecked life.  Madeleine never did get over the tragedy of the Titanic, and now as her own beauty fades her fear of aging makes everything worse.

 

03:26

She keeps by her side a personal doctor especially when she travels.  Only she changes them like tissues.  And they can be as different as night and day from one to the next.  First, the strong build, big bluff, hearty Dr. Moullowd – he was the gateway for Madeleine to meet Enzo.  Next came an old family friend Dr. King, this tall heavy bald man just wrote a fictional book “The Last Slaver”, King actually colluded with others including Jakey to try and break them up.  Then a jovial shock-headed, dark haired Dr. Preston – he was good for her, had a lot more common sense than the others but didn’t take her illnesses seriously so he had to go.  Later Dr. Weeks then Dr. Watson, all within the lovers’ span together so far.

 

04:12

This love storm began in January 1932 aboard the ocean liner Vulcania.  Returning to Italy after 6 months gone and as a new Madison Square Garden fight winner, rising boxer and second class passenger Enzo is upgraded to first class for dinner and other visits to keep a nervous Madeleine preoccupied.  Their torrid affair starts the day after their first meeting.  They separate once in Italy only to reunite again and again.  Madeleine can be very persistent and flaunts convention despite her claims of frailty and hating scandal.

 

04:45

To keep him close, she employs Enzo to train her sons in boxing.  Ummm, her sons aren’t exactly athletic or fighters.  The lovers bounce from place to place, and all the best places in Venice, Lido, Paris, Lake Como, Manhattan, Palm Beach, Newport, or wherever else Madeleine’s whims take her.  All the while Enzo tries unsuccessfully to establish himself as a boxer in America.  He keeps his training regimen going but offers for matches are fleeting.

 

05:15

By the end of July 1933, Madeleine gains her freedom.

 

Only Madeleine isn’t the only one needing a divorce.  Enzo too applies for a divorce in Reno, but the process takes far longer.  His reluctant Italian red-haired wife Signora Tosca Manetti Fiermonte of Rome refuses to divorce him.  Despite all the cheating, the young husband and wife remain passionately in love and share a son Gianni.  And of course, Enzo worries about his own mother and two younger brothers’ opinions on the situation.

 

But Madeleine’s fortune proves far too alluring for the ambitious Enzo, and she will do anything to secure him as her own, even offering to pay off his Italian wife with a hefty sum.  Madeleine fears most an alienation of affection lawsuit and the accompanying scandal. 

 

06:06

Not as preposterous as it sounds.  It’s a real threat.  Just ask millionheir Phil Plant’s former paramour silverscreen star Claire Windsor who escaped the dangerous playboy after a shipwreck.  Now Claire is embroiled in an alienation of affection lawsuit.  Her years long former lover Alfred Read defends the actress claiming he was a single man to her when their romance began, and Miss Windsor upon learning the truth never asked for him to divorce his wife nor marry her.  He now wants to return to his wife Marian Read and their children.  He would prefer the $100k suit to be dropped (that’s $2.4 million today).  The young broker further admits that Marian had also confessed to him her own affair with a brother of a University of California football player, while Alfred himself went around with a dozen ladies and often received endearing letters and photographs afterwards.

 

Of course, that whole thing is fodder for the press. 

 

07:04

Then the press finally learns of Madeleine and Enzo in Reno and Lake Tahoe, and the normally silent Tosca spills to the Italian press.  Oh yeah, all hell breaks out.

 

When the now 21 year old, in full possession of his inheritance and freedom, and Newport’s most eligible bachelor Jakey is asked about his mother’s plans, Jakey quips, “I suppose it’s true, unfortunately…”  He is currently not speaking with her due to the scandal.

 

As well, his older half-brother Vincent Astor, who is only a few months older than his former stepmother, remains quiet on the issue.

 

07:45

Ever since Reno, the newspapers are tracking Madeleine and Enzo everywhere.  Madeleine has always been a fixture for scandal.  They both run hot and cold in their comments to the press.  They head back to Manhattan for more punishment.

 

Suddenly word comes from Enzo’s lawyer, Enzo’s wife releases him after getting her own payday from Madeleine.  According to one source, $17k to be exact (that’s nearly $413k in 2024).  Enzo heads back to Reno to finalize the details.

 

08:20

Friday, September 1st, 1933

 

Upon the grant of his divorce, Enzo contemplates reuniting with Madeleine.  He’s a rather fickled lover.  Devoted while in her presence, but far too aware of the age difference between them.  As he leaves the courtroom, he sees several young women ready to help him celebrate, but he has no interest.

 

Then he receives the telegram:

 

When do you come STOP

Children left New York STOP

Miss you STOP

Love Madeleine STOP

 

Immediately, he charters an airplane for Monday so he can join Madeleine on the East Coast in Manhattan.  To the ever present press, he exclaims, “I must get there quickly.”

 

09:11

Within those two days, Madeleine nervous and fretful checks out of the Hotel Pierre and heads off to Bermuda.

 

Along with her younger sons William and John and their tutor Ralph Carr, they arrive at the Bellevue estate which Madeleine leases for two months and is considering purchasing.

 

Enzo takes the 17 hours flight to New York, wishing the plane might crash before he arrives giving him a clear and final out of the situation.

 

09:40

Wednesday, September 6th, 1933

 

Having arrived on the east coast, Enzo books passage aboard the Pan America ship, the slowest with 3 day travel to Bermuda.  Ironically, the cruise is filled with newlyweds happily embarking on their new lives together.  In contrast, Enzo considers jumping overboard into the sea.

 

10:04

He dreads a life with Madeleine.  When they are together, he is happy enough.  Somewhat mesmerized by her.  She even receives compliments from others that she looks much younger.  But he knows.  He knows full well everyone disapproves of them and specifically of him.  Jakey has even told him several times to his face.

 

After nearly 18 months together, Enzo has grown weary of her lifestyle.  The superficiality and smugness of the elites.  Madeleine is always upset over something and rarely laughs except at a clever story.

 

But then again, he admits – having now tasted caviar, could he settle for bread and butter?

 

This will be it.  He will visit her there before heading back to England.  That’s a fairly long way to go for a kiss goodbye.

 

Meanwhile Madeleine’s sons and their tutor return to Manhattan for schooling.

 

11:05

The passionate lovers meet at the Bermuda estate, but their marital plans are thwarted.   Bermuda law requires a ministerial wedding for a valid marriage, and the only two religious entities on the island are the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church both which forbid remarriage to those divorced with living former spouses.

 

Frustrated, Enzo has given up far too much over these last months.  His goals and dreams pushed aside to be at her beck and call.  The humiliation, the degradation, and still she has some kind of power over him.

 

11:42

Tuesday, September 12th, 1933

 

Heading out for a moonlit swim, Madeleine clad in a bathing suit and pearls slips and falls on the polished floor in her bedroom. 

 

In agonizing pain, She fails to get up in agonizing pain.  An ambulance rushes her to the King Edward Hospital with Enzo and her secretary following behind it. 

 

Well, that’s the story leaked to the press.  Of course, that’s not at all what happened.

 

12:12

When Enzo informs her, he plans to leave her for good.  Having another insecure fit, Madeleine accuses him of flirting with a younger girl in New York.  Things get heated fast.  She slaps Enzo in the face, but he refrains from hitting her back. 

 

“Stop it, Madeleine, please!  Stop it!” 

 

But she won’t.  She can’t.  She’s in full meltdown mode.

 

“You can’t love a man if you insist on ruining him by taking away his work and his home.  That isn’t love, that’s possession and I won’t be possessed!  Good-by!”

 

He goes towards the door, as he turns the handle —

 

She grabs him by the hair with both her hands and yanks, screaming, “You shan’t go – you shan’t go – you, you can’t!  You, you shan’t go – you can’t!  You shan’t go – you, you can’t!”

 

Instinctively reacting to the pain, the prizefighter lifts his arms up then swiftly brings them down making her release her grip. 

 

13:17

She falls to the floor.  She doesn’t get up.  She just lies there whimpering.

 

He picks her up and carries her to the bed.  She’s weak.  He holds her.  She nestles her wet cheek against his chin, then he goes and gets the latest doctor.  The doctor suspects a fractured left arm. 

 

At the hospital, X-rays also reveal a broken shoulder.

 

Despite an earlier confession, the doctor informs Enzo that Madeleine insists not to tell anyone else what happened.  She doesn’t want the truth known.

 

Now as she tries to recover, her Hospital Romeo shows up every day professing his absolute love and devotion to her. 

 

14:16

Thursday, October 5th, 1933

 

Only weeks later after another spat, Enzo attempts to return to the U.S. alone but is barred re-entry and simultaneously from returning to Bermuda.  He’s stuck in purgatory aboard the ocean liner the Queen of Bermuda with detectives watching over him as he continues his daily training for his sanity’s sake.

 

 

Oh how fickle love can be when circumstances change.  Some romances are just made for scandal… 

 

 

14:53

[Music – Stars Fell On Alabama by Lew Stone, Album The Great British Dance Bands]

 

Section 2 – History & Historiography

 

[Music Fade Out]

 

15:13

When going back through history, I have always enjoyed when things feel relative to the present.  A context or situation that feels more than just some fact of the past.

 

Of course, I love social history.  I used to love reading women and teen magazines for their romance and other life situation articles.  Dating, romance, and anything psychological.  So, if I find anything similar in the past, I easily get hooked.

 

We usually think of gold diggers as being women seeking higher profile and wealthier men.  There is plenty of criticism levelled at blatant and crass social climbing.  Whether new money or old, the rate of social acceptance can be a harsh and painful transition, if it ever really happens.

 

15:58

So it kind of struck me in this particular story how quickly Madeleine Astor Dick’s romance with a much young lover Enzo Fiermonte took off in the press.  I have been trying to track down any hint of scandal over the last year’s timeline once I learned they actually met aboard the ocean liner Vulcania in January 1932.  That same year also has a trip to Los Angeles during the July 1932 Olympics, so I knew Madeleine had chased Enzo there.  But alas there is no connection in the press.  It isn’t until a year later when Madeleine has another bout of divorce rumors that there is a peep about Enzo.  After her divorce in July 1933 and especially now with Enzo’s divorce the following September, there is a dramatic spike in interest.

 

16:45

Furthermore, it is the way to which Enzo is alluded in the newspapers that is very telling.  He is referred as the Italian Apollo, an Adonis, the Latin gladiator, and even hospital Romeo…  Many, many burns. 

 

He is given very little respect in the papers, blowing off his somewhat middling boxing career for a running tab on his whereabouts and attitude in relation to Madeleine.  Throwing out shades of details as in mentioning him winning a male bathing suit competition in 1932 Santa Monica.

 

17:19

As I have mentioned, the newspapers will state things a little more subtly but still hint at a scandal.  Then there are always marks of a more prudish time – as in the Bermuda restrictions on marriage and needing a religious ceremony while simultaneously having the only two available church services being Roman Catholic and Church of England, both of which forbid remarriage of divorcees with living former spouses.  Once former spouses have become deceased, then a person will be allowed to remarry within the respective church.

 

17:49

Kind of ironic to realize that the Church of England forbids remarriage since it was founded due to King Henry VIII’s insistence on divorcing his first wife Catherine of Aragorn so he could marry Anne Boleyn.  Only in 2002 that canon law changes to allow for divorcees to marry.  This change allows for Prince Charles – today’s King Charles III – to marry Camilla Parker Bowles.  Diana, Princess of Wales, had been deceased for several years by then, while Camilla’s former husband Andrew Parker Bowles is still living today.

 

18:21

Other adjoining news articles caught my attention that I would like to mention.

 

In Columbus, Kansas, after being killed in a holdup, a filling station operator W.F. Kimball bequeaths in his will $7,000 dollars to his faithful police dog Tuffy, and only $10 to his son.  That would be $170k for the dog and only $243.00 for the son in 2024.  In all fairness, the whereabouts of his son J.T. Kimball are unknown for several years. 

 

18:51

In Berlin, Karl Martin Hartung is sentenced to 3 years in the penitentiary for swindling multiple women out of their savings in romance scams.  Karl posed as the natural son – eh-hem illegitimate son – of Kaiser Wilhelm II.  Karl is of no biological relation but had actually once served as a secretary to Princess Hermine, the widowed Kaiser’s second and much younger wife.  Karl isn’t new to troubles with the law.  In May 1931, Karl is arrested with 4 other Nazi party members for attacking a pedestrian outside a train station.  While in 1929, Karl had previously attempted to blackmail the ex-Kaiser and Princess Hermine.

 

19:30

After the Kaiser’s death in 1941, Princess Hermine lives on his German estate until 1945 then flees as the Soviet Red Army advances.  She will be placed under house arrest then imprisoned at the Paulinenhof Internment Camp.  In 1947, Princes Hermine dies from a heart attack while still under Soviet guard.  She will be buried in Potsdam, the final resting place of several imperial family members including the Kaiser’s first wife Augusta.

 

19:57

Lastly, in more important noteworthy news, a second female Dr. Josphine Neal of New York joins the fight against the sleeping sickness encephalitis.  The project is already overseen by another female Dr. Margaret Smith, who has located in the kidneys the inclusion of bodies that point to the source of the infection in the St. Louis epidemic.

 

 

A distant past that doesn’t seem all that distant.  Life keeps going, while cycles keep repeating.

 

 

20:29

[Music – You Turned Your Head by Jack Jackson, Albums The Great British Dance Bands & Tea Dance 2]

 

Section 3 – Contemporary & Personal Relevance

 

[Music Fade Out]

 

20:49

This podcast spurred partially out of my own broken heart and dreams.  The frustration of wanting a creative career and the failure of a marriage with a dreaded fear of returning to the dating pool.  Along the journey, I have not had the best luck in dating, including two more failed romances.

 

21:08

Recently, I was having lunch with my father.  As my father joked with his longtime favorite waiter of a couple of decades, the waiter asked if I was rich.  He let us know that if I was rich there are a lot of single men worried about the upcoming presidential administration and needing a green card, but that they wanted wealthy women for the arrangement.

 

I laughed pretty hard and said that’s like wanting to win the lottery.  Besides if I was wealthy, why would I need them? 

 

It cracks me up.  Or course most people would prefer that their significant other came with some financial independence, though few are actually prepared or built for the real entrapments of high wealth dynamics.

 

21:48

And here is one other confession – I would likely be a very, very bad candidate for anyone needing to go through the green card process.  I already did that with my first and so far only marriage.  The interview portion was highly stressful with someone who did not want him to pass – errr, Old World rivalries at play in the USA.  As our marriage was real, we still passed.  However years later, he had a brief issue with a newly formed ICE due to his friend’s adversarial divorce where my ex got mentioned in the crosshairs.  We had our own impromptu home visit from ICE which we quickly cleared up the matter while laughing with the agents.  Ironically had the opposite occurred, that might have saved me from the later more disastrous fallout to come.  Hmmmm, maybe I’ll explain that ICE situation at a later date.

 

22:44

But if that situation is still in any record for me,… No hell no, not only do I not want to go through any of that again, any new significant other would be toast.

 

Sorry, I’m only willing to do certain things for absolutely mutual love and devotion.  Yet my heart has been broken enough to be skeptical.  I will risk love again, but come on I’ve got to be a little smarter the next time around…

 

As for our heirs and heiresses, well they still have a lot more learning to do…

 

 

23:24

Looking for more material on Madeleine Astor?  Her scandalous life definitely likes to come up again and again.  The 2021 fictional novel The Second Mrs. Astor by Shana Abe covers the romance, honeymoon, and the fateful night aboard the Titanic from Madeleine’s perspective.  And as previously mentioned in Episode 106: Moss Covered, check out YouTube’s Ti’s Hot Mess History.  Ti gets into all the dirty, messy details.

 

Links in the notes and transcript.

 

Ti’s Hot Mess History, YouTube Channel

https://www.youtube.com/@TisHotMessHistory

 

Riches to Ruin – Titanic Widow of John Jacob Astor & Her Troubled 3rd Marriage by Ti’s Hot Mess History July 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODY-qiEn3ak

 

The Scandalous True Story of Titanic’s Wealthiest Passenger – JJ Astor & His Teen Wife by Ti’s Hot Mess History May 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF89xKNWbow&t=25s

 

The Rich Boy Nobody Wanted: Titanic Baby John Jacob Astor VI by Ti’s Hot Mess History December 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rlV8oT6lxs

 

 

If you enjoy As The Money Burns, then please share, like, & subscribe.

 

 

Hook

 

24:02

[Music – My Heart Belongs to Daddy by Billy Cotton, Album The Great British Dance Bands]

 

Next when we return to AS THE MONEY BURNS…

 

Another heir, another birthday, 2 fortunes, a special gift, and by chance possibly someone to share it with?

 

Until then…

 

 

Credits

 

24:21

AS THE MONEY BURNS is an original podcast written, produced, and voiced by Nicki Woodard, based on historical research.  Archival music has been provided by Past Perfect Vintage Music, check out their website at www.pastperfect.com.

 

Please come visit us at As The Money Burns via Goodpods, X (formerly Twitter), Facebook (now Meta), or Instagram.  Transcripts, timeline, episode guide, and character bios are available at asthemoneyburns.com.

 

24:51

THE END.